Does True Randomness Actually Exist? ( ^&*#^%$&#% )

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Thee_Ghostess_Lola

i wuz secretly hoping it'd be s/t about randomness. owell.

Elroch

It is common to interpret random events in the real world (eg someone recovering from a disease) as caused directly by something they are not. As you surely know, this is a form of what psychologists call Attribution Bias (one of a very long list of cognitive biases that have been named!). I am reminded of Pareidolia as well.

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

some say u shouldnt try2use QM to predict macro events cuz u dont need to (not fully convinced as a die is comprised of sub-A particles) and that it probably wont affect its outcome anyway (im @ peace w/ that part). ok. no problem. lets not apply QM (but only as a probability) to determine if the die is gonna be a 1 or a 5 (tho we can tell our friends to try2impress them).

so. lets do two things. lets try2find a distinct line bwtn (love & hate ? happy.png ) in wut is a macro event and wut isnt (iows wuts classical and wuts quantum). A-n-duh, lets identify whether its a bio-event or not. iows, is wut were laying this whole weird study on living or not ? not sure if we can apply adequate determinism to our apparent random stumbling thru life...as we know it lol !

(i can see myself screaming now...its alive its alive !!...if i wuz ever able to "make contact" w/a die2predict its future)

MustangMate

Neuroplasticity, also known as brain plasticity, or neural plasticity, is the ability of the brain to undergo biological changes ranging from the cellular level (i.e., individual neurons) all the way to large-scale changes involving cortical remapping. These changes often happen as a result of psychological experiences.[1][2][3] Examples of neuroplasticity include brain changes resulting from learning a new ability,[1][4] changes resulting from sociocultural conditioning influences,[5][6][7] as well as changes that can happen as a result of experiencing psychological stress.[5][8][9][10]

Neuroplasticity was once thought to only occur during childhood,[11] but research in the latter half of the 20th century showed that many aspects of the brain can be altered (or are "plastic") even through adulthood.[12][13][14][15] However, the developing brain exhibits a higher degree of plasticity than the adult brain.[16][17]:30 Activity-dependent plasticitycan have significant implications for healthy development, learning, memory, and recovery from brain damage.[18][19][20][21]

MustangMate

The next moment in Time -

is fixed

It is impossible to predict

which is the nature of things

A conundrum? Not really. 

The explanation lies in the fact Time is-

seamless

There is no Gap between moments 

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

i think im safe to feel that no one u/s's time. but i believe that some ppl u/s it much much more than others cuzza their knowledge in the philosophies & sciences. gives them a running start. just me.

Sillver1

'lol, go ahead and ask..'

you mentioned the guys at the shooting range and i was thinking about the AR crowd tongue.png never mind that..

Sillver1

elroch: 'I have seriously hypothesised such powers in myself in the (now quite distant past)'

and how do you feel about TR now?

Elroch
MustangMate wrote:

Perhaps the most famous modern-day psi-friendly psychologist is Daryl Bem, whose 2011 experiments inspired a crisis in his field. Some of his peers thought his paper was a hoax. Others took issue with his methods, which they admitted were technically correct — but if Bem could “prove” something so outlandish as psychic ability with accepted social-science methodology, they said, there had to be something wrong with accepted social-science methodology.

In his new paper, parapsychology researcher Etzel Cardeña analyzed psi-related research and came to the conclusion that Bem’s results might not have been so crazy after all. Cardeña writes that the strongest support for psi can be found in research which utilizes the “Ganzfeld procedure,” in which blindfolded subjects in a soundproofed room are asked to describe a film clip they have not seen, which they’re either shown after the fact, or which is played simultaneously in another room. If experimental judges can use these descriptions to choose the specified clip from other “distractor” clips, this is considered positive evidence for psi. Startlingly, meta-analyses of Ganzfeld procedure studies show statistically significant support for this psychic effect. (!!)

 

A more sober assessment:

Ganzfeld experiments (wiki)

 

Elroch
Optimissed wrote:
Elroch wrote:

It is common to interpret random events in the real world (eg someone recovering from a disease) as caused directly by something they are not. As you surely know, this is a form of what psychologists call Attribution Bias (one of a very long list of cognitive biases that have been named!). I am reminded of Pareidolia as well.

But when you are with someone who is in pain and you deliberately focus calming and healing thoughts on them and their pain stops and they become calm and able to breathe almost immediately, but they hadn't even known you were there maybe because you were behind them, and this happened over and over, time and time again, wouldn't it be insane to fall prey to the "attribution bias" that would have it that it's just a coincidence?

By and large, intelligent people are those who tend to doubt and suspect the idea of non-causal coincidence.

I wouldn't base any belief on such anecdotal evidence (which is similarly vague to my own once misinterpreted experiences).

What you have is the basis for a hypothesis. (cf the sort of evidence that is needed for a new drug to reach market, and the demonstrable fact that weaker testing would be unreliable).

As yours is a hypothesis that requires a radical change to established knowledge of how the real world works, the bar would need to be set appropriately high for testing it.

jumphrope
🤐
MustangMate

Opti - u 2 have fallen victim of misunderstanding by labeling me as “ going for determinism” which is completely incorrect an not what I’ve written. Because the next moment in time is fixed does not mean it is determined or can be predicted.

Perhaps becoming familiar with dependent origination would clarify better than I.

Also - because things are never determined does not mean they can ever be truly random.

Those concepts do not accurately explain the nature of our world. Reality does not work on such a simple plane of if not this - then that is the only other explanation.

MustangMate

The greatest and what appears to be the last frontier for Science to study is Time.

Much is taken for granted thinking we posses an understanding. Truth is we know very little (scientifically) except how to make elaborate measuring devices. 
But the true nature of Time has been barely scratched and until it’s true relationship with Space and Matter are revealed, we’ll remain behind a curtain, wearing the same blinders looking in the same ole direction.

MustangMate

The example of healing with thought is excellent. Science makes the best of two things- unbiased observation and accurate measurements.

The phenomena can be observed - but as yet remains unmeasured- hence we have those who will not believe in the possibility and label all such as paranormal, imagined and non existent.

But as science has forever demonstrated- what is observed to be real can be measured with the right tools. 
My post on neuroplasticity is relevant - rewiring the brain by training your thoughts might seem impossible or p/n - except for it has been measured and quantified.

MustangMate

If this exists - that exists

if this ceases to exist - that no longer exists

The matter is not one of which came 1st, what caused what or finding what is thought to represent an origin.

Everything is interconnected. No true origins exist, no single causes, yet new phenomena comes into existence. Similar to the birth/death rhythms of Life itself.

TheBestBeer_Root

it certainly is a false foundation

Logically speaking Eternity only IS.

MustangMate

Time does not behave as if each moment is a singularity. Time is seamless. “Moment” is used as description of the present. A “next moment” does not exist. The terminology was used to convey what is traditionally thought - that Time is linear with a beginning and end- which it is not.

Time is and exists all at the same time is the theory. An all encompassing blanket.

 It’s all interwoven. The topics behaving similarly.

They exist. 

and can’t be broken down to single moments or specific causes/ certainly no event of origin. 

Account_Suspended

randomness can occur upon force as in the OP and doesn't matter the distribution so long as the die is perfect. however, to speak of randomness in a general sense and having to do with nature, you could probably say that there is a dependency for everything.

MustangMate

The mind insists differently having been conditioned from birth. The culprit is the concept - duality. Things are either/or, up/down, right/left, random/determined, beginning/ending - since the world is not observed to behave one way - it has to behave in the opposite. 

MustangMate

Perhaps fixed portrays they wrong image- being associated with D and reading too much into the term. 
Things happen as they do because- 

its their nature 

not having anything to do about D