why is ruy lopez considered the strongest

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killercrab

im still confused

Fiveofswords?

Andnar

Pfren is definitely talking about Fiveofswords, here. Fiveofswords said that he is a provisional class b player who uses chess as a mental outlet, he is definitely the target of this comment.

Rumo75
Fiveofswords hat geschrieben:

[...]...but when i find myself being talked at by a bunch of fools...and im the only one being rational...[...]

It seems to me that the best explanation for this and many other postings by the same author has been delivered by Mr Dunning and Mr Kruger.

pfren
Rumo75 wrote:
Fiveofswords hat geschrieben:

[...]...but when i find myself being talked at by a bunch of fools...and im the only one being rational...[...]

It seems to me that the best explanation for this and many other postings by the same author has been delivered by Mr Dunning and Mr Kruger.

Or Freddy Krueger... whatever comes second.

Ziryab

Fiveofswords wrote:

basically reb...the lesson here is that if i just want to discuss chess...you should probably just discuss chess. dont make yourself become my mental outlet. im much smarter than you and will always make you look very dumb which isnt good for your coaching career.

No ego

blasterdragon
JackOfAllHobbies wrote:

I love this opening, as BLACK...

 



White doesn't have to take the pawn with the knight and black is a piece down...

pfren

But still, you can apply for a joker job here... you are a great entertainer.

JM3000

statistics with the help of scid software 

Database 1 (239.900 games played in years 1970-2013 Elo >= 2500)

1) Ruy Lopez- Score for white: 55.6%; prevalence: 69.5%; Performance: 2662

2) Italian game- Score for white: 54.5%; prevalence: 14.6%; Performance: 2640

3) Scotch game- Score for white: 54.2%; prevalence: 9.6%; Performance: 2640

4) 3.Nc3 (four/three knights)- Score for white: 53.2%; prevalence: 5.4%; Performance: 2623

5) PonzianiScore for white: 47.7%; prevalence: 0.5%; Performance: 2590

Other moves don't arrive at ten games and we can't obtain statistics conclusions because the sample is too small.

The conclusion of this dates shows that after the moves 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 the Ruy Lopez is the "best by test" 

Of course anybody can play the italian and the scotch and become succefully. 

For example: Rublevsky Sergey is a strong Grand Master that employ mainly the Scotch with success

The Ruy lopez is in theory and in results the best but we can employ the scotch or the Italian for personal tastes and for other practical considerations. (reduce the time in study the openings)

 

 

 

JM3000

239.000 master games isn't a "small sample" likely this sample raises the 50% of the total population (the total of games played betwen Elo>=2500 in the years of the reference).

239.000 dates is a very big sample. This size of dates is a dream for a statistic. Normally the statistics study don't arrive to recopilate many dates. 

Rumo75
Fiveofswords hat geschrieben:

and im sure some of you are secretly thinkign that as a patzer i cannot possibly appreciate the depth and complexity of some of the ruy positions. But actually i can....ive studied the ruy i know about the interesting lines. [...]

Dunning and Kruger proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:

  • fail to recognize their own lack of skill
  • fail to recognize genuine skill in others
  • fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy [...]

(Wikipedia)

PPS2

I think the ruy is the most popular cause fisher and kasparov played it not cause its the best .I am a d4 player but i play e5 and from what i have seen from my repotire there variation where black gets full eqality and even has wining chances but the italian is the only other way to fight for an advantage you got that variation with Bg5 Bxf6 Qxf6 Nd5,and the c3 d3 italian.

pfren

But Fisher (who is he?) and Kasparov had no idea what a repotire is.

Bishop_g5

The Ruy Lopez gain it popularity among Masters cause of the forcing character it has to put immediately pressure on the center. The fact that 100 years now there is no final championship match with out one Ruy Lopez game at least prove the power and credibility it has among other choices for white after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6. I don't think that someone has to master chess to realize this! Now, if you like to play with words about " best opening " stuff, It's a different discussion and totally subjective where preparation, experience, style, technique, understanding, are the major factors to decide someone what is better for.

Bishop_g5

This is actually what I am saying. There is no other openings as good as Ruy after 1.e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6. Excuse me FOS but you are the one who doesn't want to understand this and you don't give us examples why the Italian or the Vienna are as good as Ruy Lopez! No statistics! Statistics are a joke! Give us a more practical example of your theory, if there is any...

Polar_Bear
Rumo75 wrote:

Dunning and Kruger proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:

fail to recognize their own lack of skill
fail to recognize genuine skill in others
fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy [...]

(Wikipedia)

However, just to tell the whole story: Dunning and Kruger were "awarded" with satirical Ig Nobel prize for it. It is perfectly OK to assess their conclusions as questionable at best.

PPS2

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1040803

Bishop_g5

I think that those who knows the Ruy , appreciate Bb5 much more cause forces a6,b5. In this game black neutralizes the center with out alter his Queen side pawn structure. What proves this game for white? That can do it equal with out Bb5 ? This is your point?

PPS2

it dosent force a6 b5

X_PLAYER_J_X

I do not like to label my openings as best,weakest, or strongest.

Sometimes I might say a line is weak or strong out of joking around.

However, In my heart I do not honestly believe this.

I like to think of chess openings as vehicles.

They service a function nothing more nothing less.

For Example:

Some vehicles get you from point A to point B nothing more.

Some openings are used just to get you out of the opening into a middle game which might be your strong area in chess.

Example of an opening like this is the Alapin, KIA, KID, London System

Some vehicles are made to carry huge load of material I.E they are rock solid.

Some openings which are used because of there solid nature and how hard it is for them to crack.

Example of an opening like this the Caro-Kann, Slav, Queens Gambit Declared, Berlin Defense

Some vehicles are made to be fast and wreckless built for speed.

Some openings which tie in with that idea are openings which offer alot of fast attacking or counter attacking games.

Example of an opening like this Kings Gambit, Sicilian Dragon, Benoni

It does not mean one is better than the other it just means they service different purposes. An some of them are better at servicing a specific purpose than others.

In the Chess World

The Ruy Lopez would be considered the Cadillac of openings.

The Queens Gambit would be up there on that list as well.

Bishop_g5

Yeah it doesn't! You can play the Berlin where black accept the inferior position to fight for or the Jaenish where black has 15 moves to gain something either wise is positionally lost! Come on...what are we talking now!?