Does chess make you smart or do smart people play chess?
I think you've left out option #3: Do Chess-players like to think that they are smarter than average?
Does chess make people smart or only smart people play chess ?
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I think the reality is that chess plays people into thinking they're smart.
Edit: so what blueemu said.
This does, however, provide excellent insight into the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Feb 20, 2018
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#26
BlargDragon wrote:
This does, however, provide excellent insight into the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Yea...exactly...
I guess dumb people are dumb chess players and smart people are smart chess players
That doesn't mean that smart people can't be dumb chess players but I guess there are no dumb people that are smart chess players.
It depends on how you define dumb
It depends on how you define smart.
It also depends wether someone taught you the rules
If you ask me what is the single characteristic that makes a person subject to this self deception, I would say that it is breathing.
David Dunning
DeirdreSkye wrote:
So you have to show evidence that proves your ridiculous claim that all GMs have high intelligence before you ask for evidence that shows the opposite.
I have NEVER claimed that GMs have high intelligence, I only said that I would be amazed if there was a GM below 100. The person I quoted, on the other hand, said that it is a fact that some stupid people excel at chess. If you present something as a fact, you do need a source or at least a very good argument. Is that so hard to understand?
Feb 24, 2018
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#30
I coached a high school chess team and was Tournament Director of the Scholastic Tournaments run in my county. I remember a reporter coming to a County Championship and asking the parents if their kids were all smart. They told her no, some of the best kids on each of the teams were not good academic students.
That was certainly true of my team, though being smart is a plus. I think that pattern recognition helps a lot: it's something I'm not good at, yet I've mastered multivariable calculus and have a graduate degree in chemistry and a bachelor's degree in physics.
Feb 24, 2018
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#31
there are three things that make you good at any game (or any sport)...
practice, practice and practice
Of course only smart people play chess. How could anyone of average intelligence possibly learn how to move a knight, castle, or capture en passant? Those concepts require substantial mental acuity. I didn't appreciate how smart I was before I learned to play chess. I had been playing for many years by the time physicists finally found evidence of dark matter. I thought, "Duh! Took you long enough! I chuckled and wondered how long it would take them to discover that the expansion of the universe is accelerating. If physicists were smart enough to play chess, the discoveries they would make would be mind-boggling!
Feb 25, 2018
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#33
Malcolm Gladwell would claim its luck, skill and practice. Luck to have been exposed to the game when you're young, have the financial means to get to tournaments and have chess groups or chess clubs in your area. Skill to do well at the game and time to practice the game over and over. He claims it requires 10,000 hours or about 3 hours a day for 10 years to become the very best at anything you want to do well.
Feb 25, 2018
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#34
Do we have any reliable information about the IQ of chess playeres (including current world elite)? By reliable information I mean psychological assessment (Wechsler, Raven, etc.).
Feb 25, 2018
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#35
Feb 25, 2018
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#36
ESP-918 wrote:
Don't listen to those kids ! They don't know a thing, yet they think they know it all.
I will give the mos correct and most importantly 🔞 answer.
To play chess you don't have to be smart ( you might know how the pieces move and have a rating 200, 300 range ) nothing smart about that anyone can do it.
NOW to play GOOD chess (1800+ rating range) you have to be SMART, INTELLIGENT. Now I'm not going to explain or argue with you why you have to be smart, intelligent, I will just say you have to look for definition what smart is !
Smart or intelligent is not just high IQ where's only kids think that all it takes to be smart. Intelligence is very large area of knowledge and ALSO if you didn't know it includes emotional intelligence, etc... PART of intelligence is MEMORY and to play good chess you MUST have good memory, so therefore people are intelligent, smart who play good chess.
If you play chess we now have a proof that also non-smart people play chess
[COMMENT DELETED]
Hm, I think you have to start playing chess by being somewhat smart, but you do get smarter, and more strategic as you keep playing. Chess.com does provide tabs on lessons and tactics....
So, technically, both.
Scott_Beaumont wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:
h4_explosive wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:
h4_explosive wrote:
EndgameStudier wrote:
CoffeeAnd420 wrote:
I don't see any other game played that challenges one's intellect, quantitative deduction, and cognitive ability more than Chess. Not even close. You don't have to be of significantly high intelligence to "play" chess but obviously, if you're looking to advance into the 2200+ club, possessing less than a 120 IQ would probably begin to pose you serious, serious challenges. A lot of these GM's are floating in the 130-160 range, like that or not.
Actually, retarded people sometimes except at chess. They can have an IQ of 70 and can play 10 chess games simultaneously blindfolded. Ability to unfold cubes in your mind has nothing to do with calculating in chess
please show me evidence of a GM who has an IQ of less than 100. I would be absolutely amazed if there was one.
Have you done IQ tests in all GMs and you know for fact they have over 100?
Lol no I haven't, that's why I am asking for evidence that there is one GM below 100. no idea what you want from me as I have never said that I know anything for a fact.
You ask for evidence that no GM is under 100.
Did you provide evidence that all GMs are over 100?No , you didn't and you actually haven't any.
It's your theory that you demand that we accept as true and try to prove the opposite.Do you understand your logical fallacy?
There is one fact , no chessplayer , NOT EVEN ONE , ever was a member of MENSA. If all GMs and ,why not , all IMs had indeed high intellignece then at least one of them , if not more, would have very high intelligence and would be member of MENSA.But there isn't even one.
GMs are not more intelligent than others.This was also proved in a research in 1927 which tested several top GMs and world champions.It was included in a recent research of Oxford University.Copy and paste from the official report:
"Subsequent research confirmed that intelligence and visuo-spatial abilities are rarely, if ever, correlated with chess skill among adult chess experts. Djakow, Petrowski and Rudik (1927) tested eight grandmasters—including several world champions and some of the best players at their time—with a number of measures of general intelligence and visuo-spatial memory. They found no differences between this highly talented group and a control group of adult non-chess players."
So you have to show evidence that proves your ridiculous claim that all GMs have high intelligence before you ask for evidence that shows the opposite.
Source please RE: Mensa. That's complete horsehockey. Also, oddly enough, requiring people to be members of MENSA in order to demonstrate intelligence is at least on par with requiring people to be GMs at chess to demonstrate high intelligence. Obviously, depending on the measure of intelligence, people who are GMs (or in MENSA) demonstrate at least some level of high intelligence. You come off as if it is an attack on yourself, when it isn't. Not all people of high intelligence will be great at chess, though it certainly does take a certain measure of intelligence or at least aptitude to be great at chess. I'll never be a GM but I can still spot BS.
Yeah, but tbh the best players of chess do have pretty High IQ's, I don't think its mandatory but you pretty much need a high IQ to get through with the strategies done through chess. Also, there are a lot of people with high IQ's located around the world and i guess around 99% of those people are pretty familiar with chess and have played it every so often. Not necessarily BS....
I have told people that chess is like mental gymnastics. It strengthens the mental processes but it also trains flexibility. I learn to think around a problem or obstacle. The shortest distance between two points is not always a straight line. And, anticipate the obstacles you will will inevitably encounter so you can deal with them and still reach your objective. You also can take away the lesson that in life you win some and you lose some. But, you can't win if you don't play the game. And, finally, with chess it is important to keep some perspective. It's time to quit when it's no longer fun. It's just a game!