Does True Randomness Actually Exist? ( ^&*#^%$&#% )

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Elroch
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:

OHH !....but u can always fallback on the spineless "....but w/ an infinite amount of tries it will" How in the he!! would u know that it will work w/ an infinite amount of tries ? 

You seem to be quoting yourself and calling yourself spineless. I suggest quoting someone else instead.

Elroch
Optimissed wrote:
Elroch wrote:

The purpose of mathematical models is to predict reality. They do this very well. When you can do as well, you will be in a position to justify negative comments. Until then you are blowing hard.>>

Right. In my belief, a mathematical model (of an aspect of "reality") is a mathematical depiction of that reality. "Reality" is a function of existence which, you recently suggested, physics has lost faith with. But forgetting that, if we have a mathematical model and we're able to identify variables and quantify each identified variable then we can evaluate the function of the quantified variables, which is a "prediction" and of course we SHOULD be able to perform experiments that validate the prediction empirically.

Yes, it is only the output predictions that matter to the scientific method. While predictions are untested (or even while they are incalculable, as happens increasingly!) the model is merely a hypothesis.

My maths ability is not as good as theirs and consequently I am not a physicist. My logical ability is possibly a lot better and so I am able to point out that they are unjustifiably conflating their mathematical models with reality.

All good physicists understand the difference between a valid hypothesis (such as some form of multiverse) and a hypothesis that has been tested and has the status of an established scientific theory. Saying something MAY be real (or even is probably real, if someone is really confident) is not the same as certainty that it is.

However, it is worth noting that the Everett multiverse is an interpretation of quantum mechanics that has equal scientific status (in terms of its ability to make testable predictions about the real world). It has an elegance (of assumptions) that is appealing to many physicists who know that assuming little is a good thing.

There's a word used to describe that (in philosophy) and I forget it for the minute.

I have an hypothesis that is an attempted explanation as to why almost any given idea at any given time is thought to be "the nearest we have come to describing reality". I haven't tried to write down this hypothesis because it is largely intuitive and it would be difficult. But we can compare these ideas which they invest so much faith in with other ideas, which in the infinite wisdom of the Creators of this site, we are not allowed to discuss.

Come to Open Discussion group and open a topic if you wish. There are many varied viewpoints.

 

Sillver1
Elroch wrote:

Probably every concept we think of as "solid" and "real" is an emergent phenomenon, a sort of high level pattern that is very different to the underlying truth.

This applies even to time and space. It is now believed that the structure we see in our Universe can be emergent from the entanglement of states in a Hilbert space. This extends to our Universe being one branch of a Multiverse without the underlying "simple" Hilbert space structure being any more complicated than for a single Universe. "Spooky action at a distance" is the phenomenon that most strongly hints at this, with only part of the phenomenon fitting conveniently into our usual notion of events being related in a causal manner. While there is no breach of causality, you do need information outside of space-time (the impossibility of a local hidden variables explanation is proven result, by the breach of Bell's inequality).

it wont surprise me at all if an underlying truth will turn to be the case, and i have no problem with that. it actually kinda cool. what i dislike about it, is the absolute determinism.
as for the trio of bell, the spooky, and none locality.. i wouldn't jump to mix them with 'outside space time' because within this context, none locality means something else.
now for something less pleasant..

Sillver1
Elroch wrote:
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:

OHH !....but u can always fallback on the spineless "....but w/ an infinite amount of tries it will" How in the he!! would u know that it will work w/ an infinite amount of tries ? 

You seem to be quoting yourself and calling yourself spineless. I suggest quoting someone else instead.

you can quote me instead..
he just shows the symptoms of a narcissistic jerk. lol

Quote:
"Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder:

-Grandiose sense of self-importance. ...
-Lives in a fantasy world that supports their delusions of grandeur. ...
-Needs constant praise and admiration. ...
-Sense of entitlement. ...
-Exploits others without guilt or shame. ...
-Frequently demeans, intimidates, bullies, or belittles others."

Elroch

There are only facile psychological reason for you to have hostility to someone who (with all due humility) has an unusual level of knowledge and experience of this precise topic (two degrees in maths, study of information theory, many years of working on stochastic modelling, plus (again with all due humility) having achieved a distinction in a course on randomness).

I fail to meet the points on your checklist, so sadly your incompetence is showing.

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

HiHo, perfectly put together for him....as you've listed the diagnostic criteria for NPD (cluster B) outta the APA's DSM-5 (fifth edition). he only hasta meet (3) of ur above listed conditions to be afflicted w/ this disorder. which he certainly appears to meet (more so comfortably exceeds w/ symptom).

and that's why I've always ventured that he imbibes. As it acts as 'fuel' for his disorder. sick.   

Elroch
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:

HiHo, perfectly put together for him....as you've listed the diagnostic criteria for NPD (cluster B) outta the APA's DSM-5 (fifth edition). he only hasta meet (3) of ur above listed conditions to be afflicted w/ this disorder. which he certainly appeared to meet (more so comfortably exceeds w/ symptom).

and that's why I've always ventured that he imbibes. As it acts as 'fuel' for this disorder.   

The quality of your judgment is revealed by the fact that I "imbide" perhaps 2 units of alcohol per month on average.

While I have an accurate understanding of what I am capable of (including, for example, quite good quality correspondence chess), my greatest respect is always reserved for the highest level of expertise (which is never me) and the body of knowledge. This is inconsistent with your insult.

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

thank you. we have an admission. Now....we can triple that and add 5.

Elroch

I would not describe acknowledging very low alcohol consumption to be an "admission". It's just a fact about which I have no reason to be proud or ashamed. I am sorry that you are so perturbed by being badly wrong, but I advise you to learn from the mistake.

I can't understand why you are one of those who is persistently abusive towards me, but it only reflects badly on you. I request you to be more civilised.

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

Hey !....u started it !

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

....and know that the only person ur fooling is urself.

Sillver1

first off, this wasnt meant as hostility, but there is no pleasant way to convey such a message.
second, the more you talk? the more you prove me. for real! you just dont understand it, and i dont have the time right now.
heres an introduction..

https://www.businessinsider.com/narcissists-are-irritating-and-attention-seeking-but-successful-2018-6?r=US&IR=T

Elroch
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:

Hey !....u started it !

No, I did not.

Elroch
Sillver1 wrote:

first off, this wasnt meant as hostility, but there is no pleasant way to convey such a message.
second, the more you talk? the more you prove me. for real! you just dont understand it, and i dont have the time right now.
heres an introduction..

https://www.businessinsider.com/narcissists-are-irritating-and-attention-seeking-but-successful-2018-6?r=US&IR=T

It is not narcissistic to explain that (with all due humility) I am well-qualified to make reliable statements about this specific subject topic.

Neither is it to present scientific knowledge in an area outside of my own specialism, from the point of someone who recognises the expertise of others and realises that acknowledging that expertise is the most reliable way to accurate beliefs.

Rather these things are appropriate and sensible. Well, unless you consider provoking attacks from misguided people to be not sensible.

Elroch
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:

....and know that the only person ur fooling is urself.

This exhibits pathological confidence in a reckless guess that has already been refuted. Bear in mind I KNOW things you can only wildly guess.

Thee_Ghostess_Lola
Elroch wrote:
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:

....and know that the only person ur fooling is urself.

This exhibits pathological confidence in a reckless guess that has already been refuted. Bear in mind I KNOW things you can only wildly guess.

ur just mad cuz u got called out for wutchu really are.

u need help elroch. gettit now....before its too late. as ur self-medicating is a barney band-aid over a much-much deeper wound. and remember, u can't get treatment for NPD until after u fix the SA problem.

zborg

What is more rhetorically persuasive -- Elroch's tortured prose, or the Ghostess Lola's picturesque feet and prose?

Let's the Readers Decide, or just flip a coin?  LOL.

Elroch

Could you give an example of what you mean about theoretical physics? I have arrived at a position of absolute objectivity. Where I like a hypothesis (like the Everett multiple world concept, itself inspired by Feynman's beautiful sum of all possible paths interpretation of quantum mechanics, which has an intuitive "aha" that Schroedinger never managed. wink.png) I accept only what is tested as scientific truth and the machinery as only possibly more than that.

I think there is room for confusion about this. There are several different issues here: only one is about scientific truth - the testable predictions. Positive views of the aesthetics of a model are something else, not to be confused with certainty in its truth.

See you when you pass by. happy.png

zborg

"I have arrived at a position of absolute objectivity." *(direct quote from above).

Now you're really starting to sound like a BOT, Elroch.

Please take a chill pill, for posterity's sake.  grin.png

Elroch

Yes, I am trying to be a "scientific method bot", as that is the way to be objective!